Design Disrupted: An Old-School Creative Goes All-In On AI

[00:00:00] Tessa Burg: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Leader Generation, brought to you by Mod Op. I’m your host, Tessa Burg, and today I am joined by Sergio Cardona. He is our Lead AI Designer in the Creative Strategic business Unit. Sergio, thanks so much for joining us.

[00:00:15] Sergio Cardona: Happy to be here.

[00:00:17] Tessa Burg: Before the call, we were talking about the title of this episode, Designed Disrupted: An Old-School Creative Goes All-In On AI, and I love this title because I think every creative can really see themselves in that. You know, their creative talent first is amazing, and maybe it’s because I’m not a creative myself, but I really respect people who are able to take concepts and ideas and visualize them and bring brands to life through really…I don’t know, clean ways of describing that brand without any words. And then for creatives who are copywriters, that’s just as amazing. So I have a ton of respect for the creative industry. I’ve always loved working with amazing creatives, I know that AI, my area, can sometimes feel like a threat. So I am excited to learn more about what you’re working on as a Lead AI Designer. And before we jump in though, let’s hear more about you. Tell us about your background and role here at Mop Op today.

[00:01:23] Sergio Cardona: Great. So, uh, my name is Sergio Cardona. I started my career at FIT. Many years ago, got introduced to packaging, fell in love with it. And to your point, or the title of the of this, of this show is disruptive, right? As a creative, we always find different ways to create disruptive, right? You wanna show off on shelf, so call it AI, call it a new color palette, call it a new find, we always trying to shine on shelf when it comes to packaging. So my career started at FIT, then slowly graduated to the process of scaling as a creative. From a junior designer to a senior designer to a associate design director, and now as a design lead for Mod Op. So. I been, I got into AI really early on, right?

[00:02:14] Sergio Cardona: Right. When Midjourney started coming out and you were able to prompt images and you were getting really amazing results. Not crazy, but enough to say, Hey, there’s something here. Right? So really started diving into what. What this is doing. But before I get to a, into AI, I think I know it’s, it’s um, I think I wanna talk also about 3D ’cause I think that was almost my transition to AI.

[00:02:38] Sergio Cardona: So as a package designers, we are training in the traditional platforms like Adobe, Photoshop and Illustrator. And as things progress in their industry, you started finding a need for different tools like After Effects and motion graphics. 3D was part of that transition, right? I was being very curious like all creators are, and I was like, what else is out there to kind of help me tell this story?

[00:03:03] Sergio Cardona: ’cause at the end of the day, when you do packaging or any art form, what you wanna do is just convey or tell a story with different medias, and AI is just one of them. And that’s how I started moving from design to 3D, motion and now AI, which in a way, another sort of combines all of them in a different format, right?

[00:03:27] Sergio Cardona: Not so in an application way, but in many applications through prompting or creating fast ideas.

[00:03:35] Tessa Burg: I like that you compared using AI as a different way to tell the story, and it positions it a tool, but also a contributor playing an active role in what the output is. What AI tools have you used to help tell that story, and then what have been the outcomes or outputs from that use?

[00:03:58] Sergio Cardona: Well, I, I think like everything started with Midjourney. I think that was the first original platform that was able to get in there. And then how I started realizing, um, Midjourney to tell the stories was mostly to get my ideas faster. Right? In most cases, you were able to say, what would this look like?

[00:04:16] Sergio Cardona: Right? You had to draw it, take a picture. I was now able to prompt this and get a result within seconds. So generating ideas fast was key to be able to convey an idea, right? Sometimes it’s sketch. Might not be interpret the way you wanted it to be, right? Because sometimes it’s missing colors, it’s missing so many elements.

[00:04:36] Sergio Cardona: Through Midjourney, I was able to craft the idea faster. Right. And then you started graduating and the platform started growing. Right? No longer you are just. Prompting for the help of just creating outputs, you are able to control the outputs. That kind of started driving me into ChatGBT. Right. When you now you are using a tool in a more conversational manner to to generate ideas, right.

[00:05:03] Sergio Cardona: To copywriters. You know, one of the things that I love to do with ChatGBT is that sometimes an idea doesn’t have to be a visual representation, it can be a story. Right? So one of the ways I use AI is to say. What would be a poem if what this brief would be, if it was a poem, right. Because, because it. How you solve it and you know, I mean, we are visual people, right?

[00:05:28] Sergio Cardona: So a lot of designers are like, oh, I can do it better. I don’t like the results. It just feels very, uh, cookie cutter, it just feels like this one designer inside the machine. And it is, right. It’s just, it’s trained to do, to do something, but not to do what we are trained to do this many years of that. So, but what was really good is to translate.

[00:05:47] Sergio Cardona: Sort of your emotions or your vision. So I’ll say, what would this look, if this was a poem, . And then it just paints a different picture, right? I’m always a big fan of Strangers and Strangers is the packaging design firm that their approach design through storytelling, right?

[00:06:04] Sergio Cardona: And I think that’s something that we do really well. Also, at Mod Op, what’s the story behind it? So once you have a poem. You see the challenge through a different lens. It’s no longer A to B, but a picture of how you can achieve a result through poetry to music, whatever can create that output. So once you have that to ChatGPT and you get the answer, you get a different kind of view of what the problem is and a way to solve it.

[00:06:39] Tessa Burg: I love the examples of people using AI to really drive their creativity. And how in, when you’re walking through your use of Midjourney, ChatGPT and you said this earlier. You’re the, you’re directing. not just asking it to do the work for you. You’re going back and forth. You are in control of that output and really helping even the machine to elevate and push progress toward. Telling that story. Identifying core challenges, identifying where value is gonna be created, resonance with the target audience. Are there other areas within the creative workflow where you have found benefit to using tools to maybe solve blockers or make things move faster? I know one thing that pops into my head.

[00:07:29] Tessa Burg: I’ve seen a lot of apps that are like inversion or in editing. Are there other ways in which AI is. Not just pushing the creative forward, but also helping us save time and operate more efficiently.

[00:07:41] Sergio Cardona: For sure. I always try to tackle, uh, my process through AI, through, through the filter of how can I eliminate things there, let’s say cookie cutter or time consuming or not creative, right? For example, uh, the other day I was able to create a more, uh, complex script to utilizing an Adobe Illustrator, right?

[00:08:03] Sergio Cardona: When you do create presentations, so you create a, um. For the client, you always starts to create PNGs to showcase with the client, right? Able to create a script that takes it into Photoshop crops, all the extra elements, saves us the right color profile, and puts in a folder in a matter of seconds, was significantly improving.

[00:08:27] Sergio Cardona: Basically, we, we usually do about 40 PNGs, right? A PNG for a presentation. It would take about half a second per PNG, right? If you do that throughout the day, that’s time consuming and it’s not, it’s not creative. By creating this automated script in Java, which I’m not a programmer, but I was like, you know what?

[00:08:47] Sergio Cardona: Let me just figure out if I can program this and able to create that script. Now I’m able to output my presentation in a faster and more. Uh, efficient matter, which is saves more time for me to do the things I love, which is great and eliminates all that cookie cutter process, part of the presentation and creative.

[00:09:10] Tessa Burg: Doing something that sounds like it’s very natural to you, but it’s actually quite profound in how you approach building that solution. So you started with a challenge, and I love that you labeled it. I wanna replace what’s not creative. I wanna make more space for myself to do what I do best, which is tell stories, solve problems, be a designer, then. Even though I mentioned there are a Kabillion apps and there are a Kabillion apps and you probably tested them, uh, that can do things like that, that can help you with resizing help to do the output. thing that I have found, and I’m curious if you found the same thing, a lot of AI apps are really over-engineered and sometimes AI as our friend and the right solution. Hey, is there an app for that? But it’s what’s the minimal way I can still start solving this challenge using technology and may be a part of that, whether it’s helping me code, whether it’s embedded into an existing technology already license, and let me test and learn from there for this first iteration where I do feel like I see a lot of people kind of get trapped in the app versus not app. like, well, I try that app didn do as good as me and they write it off. But I love that you, started with the challenge you went to a minimally viable product now you’re starting to already see time savings and I’m guessing kind of starting to see opportunities for this to grow.

[00:10:52] Sergio Cardona: No, for sure. And, and I think the, the, the biggest issue with AI, at least in the creative field, is that there seems like there’s always a different app every week. Right? So it’s very hard to keep up. And also I feel that it doesn’t meet the expectations once you jump into it, right? Because it’s really easy to kinda streamline the process and say, oh look, I did this and I got this result. You’re going to try it. And what you don’t see is the, the amount of variations they go through before they give you that beautiful result. Right? And that can get very frustrating and costly. And sometimes you’re like, you know what?

[00:11:28] Sergio Cardona: This is not really that efficient. This is not solving problems, it’s actually creating more problems. So part of the way I think about AI is not, let me. There’s two different types of designers. They’re sort of moving forward, and I heard this the other day, right? There’s the, the prompt designers, right?

[00:11:45] Sergio Cardona: Most people that have an idea can prompt it, create some sort of beautiful outcome, and there’s their thinkers and the storytellers. Right now, if I can solve an issue through technology and tell the story. I can utilize AI to help me get there. Right. Is it by writing code? Is it about, you know, understanding or digesting the brief?

[00:12:09] Sergio Cardona: Sometimes you get briefs and they’re so lengthy and you’ll be like, you know what? Tell me the three more important things about this brief, and then let me start from there. Take out the key words from this brief. So now you’re realizing to completely tell the story, but help you through the process of creating that to making sure that you brief is done in a more efficient manner.

[00:12:37] Tessa Burg: Yeah, I really like when you break out the different types of creatives and both play a really valuable role and at Mod Op, I think we’re moving in that direction where not only do we wanna create more time for us to be those strategic storytellers, but we also want to create ways that we elevate our clients as well. And so when we’re able to comb out the stuff that isn’t creative, be more productive, get them something that’s beautiful and really stands out, I feel like there’s that chain reaction of. Inspiration. you seen that as you’ve begun to show people the output from AI, either because we have a lot of parties we’re bringing along internally as well with adoption, but what have been some of the reactions from clients or even internal stakeholders when you show them what’s possible with AI and design?

[00:13:32] Sergio Cardona: Well, I think internally it starts with a layer of like amusement. How you got there? Show me. And then when, when the client comes forward, is is benefits like we got here faster and actually make them part of the process? It’s actually very encouraging for them too, right? Because it’s a partnership and they’re always very excited when you say, Hey, we use this tool to kinda solve this issue in a more timely matter, so they know that we are being conscious with their time and we are getting to the results sooner than later.

[00:14:13] Tessa Burg: So we talked about using AI as a, a way to get to those ideas faster, elevate our storytelling and strategic thinking as well as target those areas that are not creative, automate, or do them differently and more efficiently in order to get a bigger, better con, bigger being like. more immersive, creative concept. What are some things, when you look to the future, what you wanna work on next? Where do you think there’s the most need for AI to be? And what are you most excited about as we continue this journey into AI design and AI adoption and creative?

[00:14:51] Sergio Cardona: Well, I think the more integrated AI becomes where software, for example, Adobe Firefly is a great sample, right? It’s not a platform that that’s just generating images. It’s part of the process that you’re doing with the programs that you’re already familiar with, right? So being able to remove backgrounds the way it started to add in more imagery to elements or be able to ceate compositions faster. I think that’s very exciting, right? Because it becomes your partner through the process in the process that you’re already familiar with, right? So it doesn’t feel like you’re in a external platform is where you are. And you’ve been for many years, right? As the Photoshop has upgraded.

[00:15:33] Sergio Cardona: Now it’s just another tool that helps you get to the process faster where, where I think that, you know. The future. I think more acceptance and more understanding that it’s not here to replace us to, but to improve us. Right? To be able. I see a lot of platforms now. Kinda working side by side with designers to say, what is the style of design you have?

[00:15:57] Sergio Cardona: Let’s kinda create a AI around that. So if anybody wants, that style is done with your style and not just, it’s not being stolen from you, right? So you able to connect yourself with an AI agent that helps you. Carry your style throughout. So anybody can leverage your, your design skills, be an illustration, photography, or music for that matter, and say, Hey, I want this.

[00:16:23] Sergio Cardona: But now done with the, with the AI filter on it and it helps you create it and you get the benefits from it because you are start creating, uh, art the people like, and it’s not just being harvest out of the internet somewhere. It’s actually come from a source. So that’s very exciting in the future, that partnership between AI and creatives.

[00:16:43] Tessa Burg: And I love that your focus is on that partnership lens because we hear a lot of headlines and there is hundreds of millions of dollars going into AI startups that their purpose is to replace roles. And they say that one, let me just pull up the name. One just ran a campaign that was titled. Stop hiring humans

[00:17:12] Sergio Cardona: Oh,

[00:17:12] Tessa Burg: that feels so counterproductive. And they ran the campaign and it’s public, so I’ll just say who it is. It’s Artisan

[00:17:19] Sergio Cardona: okay.

[00:17:20] Tessa Burg: is looking at really sales, customer service and why agents and robots are better at that role than people. And it reminded me of when Salesforce first launched. flagship campaign was called 1-800-No-Code, and I worked at a company that, uh, licensed the Salesforce platform then they got a lot of marketing people into the room and said, oh, now we can use this and we can do automations and all this great work without any code. Day two, we had to get four developers to help us execute the platform. Like there, there is just a reality that when a lot of these headlines, a lot of the media when we’re talking about these, is there a future in which some knowledge work, not even some, but a significant amount of knowledge work gets offset because. As Sergio, as you said earlier, it’s not creative or it’s not strategic, or is highly repeatable, it’s not adding a lot of value. absolutely. Does it mean full blown people are gonna be replaced? I think it’s a choice, and what you’ve walked through here in your journey is you’ve made a choice to evolve your role, to include new skills, to include new technologies, and not just to be, oh, I can use this app to do that, not just an orchestrator of different apps, but to use the creative process.

[00:18:58] Tessa Burg: Focusing on what is the challenge, what is the story I wanna tell that’s gonna deliver the value? Then when I look at the tool sets, works best? Where can I start again? You’re doing that so naturally, but I think it’s a really clear path for not just creatives, but really anyone in a knowledge work marketing profession to take.

[00:19:18] Tessa Burg: And you have to make the choice to want to learn new skills. Uh, we have been doing the AI playground and reviewing hundreds of apps now That’s been a very worthwhile exercise while I, I just said, you know, we shouldn’t just be using apps. We shouldn’t, but the people behind these apps are really freaking smart. You know, like there’s a lot of value. So there’s also gonna be a lot of learning and a lot of creative thinking that happens after you try it.

[00:19:48] Sergio Cardona: No, for sure. And, and I think, you know, when you mentioned that, is it gonna replace us? Right? And, and I think there’s definitely gonna be some, some shift in the way things are getting done, right? But at the end of the day, what makes us, I think even as Mod Op, what makes us special is the people with the right tools, right?

[00:20:08] Sergio Cardona: Because. I say, anyone can just go in there and prompt, go into any studio and create endless amount of images in a small amount of time. Are they good? Are they telling a good story? Are you able to piece them together? What is the right information? So it’s not about how you create them, it’s about being able to distill them what works and what doesn’t.

[00:20:29] Sergio Cardona: And also. Still at this stage, there’s still a level of craftsmanship that still needs to happen. You still need to be able to take those elements and transform it into print media, right? That has different layers and complexities than just an image, right? There’s, there’s, uh, print files that requires color separations and AI still doesn’t do that, right?

[00:20:53] Sergio Cardona: So the technicalities and being able to know what works, I think is, is key, right? So, you know, at one point. The noise would sort of disappear and you still wanna go back to the people that understand your brand and understands how to use the tools to get your brand story out there successfully.

[00:21:16] Sergio Cardona: Right? So I, I think, yes, this for sure, you know, more clients are gonna be. Demanding more speed and faster results. And I think that’s why us as designers, we need to be able to evolve and understand what tools are gonna help us get there without sacrificing the craft machine. Because design takes time, right?

[00:21:36] Sergio Cardona: Good design takes time. Now, if we remove all those extra elements that are not needed, or at least they’re time consuming and not creative, we can have more time to actually craft the idea in a more.

[00:21:53] Tessa Burg: Yeah. And that when we look to the future and we think about, you know, yes, there’s efficiency. Yes, these are tools, but one of the things that you’re also showing clients is that there’s more that’s possible now in the way that brands and designs tell stories and the way they show up. That just simply wasn’t possible.

[00:22:13] Tessa Burg: I know some of the things, one of the tools that you demoed for me when we first met was a simple voice agent that you had built yourself,

[00:22:21] Sergio Cardona: Yeah.

[00:22:22] Tessa Burg: so impressive, and you just said that there’s a lot more layers when we translate digital images into prints. And there’s also a lot more layers that you uncovered going through when you learn more about, um, motion graphics different 3D objects. These layers can also be the fuel to additional agents, but it doesn’t mean it replaces you. It gives you more power to direct tools and agents that continuously, again, solve challenges, elevate your strategic problem solving, and help clients start showing up for their customers and their audiences in ways that just before were not possible.

[00:23:06] Sergio Cardona: No, for sure. I think that. The, the way we approach the process has completely done a 180, right? Uh, we are now in age where collaboration between humans and machine is critical for the success of ourselves and our clients, right? So if we put the right agent, for example, I even named it, right, is, is a human desire to humanize AI.

[00:23:34] Sergio Cardona: At least for me, it’s kinda like, you know, what is the name? What is your story, right? I call for Cleo, you know, where did the name came from, right? So I’m started designing this ideal assistant through. To through AI to help me with my process. Right? So now it feels more human. And I think that’s part of that story, right?

[00:23:57] Sergio Cardona: My story, my graphic story, my packaging story is how is that agent now integrated into this, uh, new process that we are building?

[00:24:09] Tessa Burg: I love it. And that inspired some of the innovations that we’re bringing to market, including, you know, we’re person helping brands personify through other voice agents, whether it’s in event apps or in games. We have some personified agents that are AI driven. And for us, the agents are taking away those repeatable tasks.

[00:24:31] Tessa Burg: And we’re not running a campaign like here saying that it’s gonna replace people. It does give the brand an opportunity to show up in a really productive way for consumers, whether it’s reminding someone of important milestones, letting them know when they’re near an area that they have interest in and aligns with their values, or being able to find in the business to business part the right widget or application or compound that fits their exact, use case. is where. It can really start to lead to higher quality outcomes that are also highly measurable while still showing up as a human, which, you know, especially in B2B, that has been really hard. You know, it’s always, it’s like salespeople tell you what you wanna hear. We know that a lot of B2B companies have a high fall off then right after they close, and then 80% turnover where AI is the assistant and personified ai, where it really makes people feel comfortable, it gives them more exact. Of course this is all done through, you know, people like you who are bringing that storytelling lens and pairing it with high quality data that that is integrated from the client and our systems alike. It is an orchestra that’s being directed. It is not one tool, a one system that is replacing, it’s elevating and enhancing.

[00:25:59] Sergio Cardona: For sure. And you know, one of the new tools I started playing with the other day is. And a and, and I was thrown away by how now the integration of large language models and everyday apps, like your email, your, um, uh, your, um, sorry, I just left my mind. Your email, your calendar and all the stuff that compose your business now can be integrated through any system.

[00:26:28] Sergio Cardona: Right. So, you know, I think that the AI is. Is transforming not only the way we create outputs, but the, the way we kind of function throughout everything. And it’s just a matter of like us understanding that it’s just a different way of doing business. Right? It’s a different way to kind of presenting yourself out there and not in a scary way, right?

[00:26:56] Sergio Cardona: ’cause most people are like, oh my God, this is scary. Every time a new platform comes out. It’s like, oh my God, this is scary. This is the end, and it’s not. It just improves everything you do.

[00:27:07] Tessa Burg: Yeah. I think the key to success that you just hit on, that NAN does is integration and we’re gonna be having future podcasts, not just talking about NAN, but MCP, ATOA. And this is again, where humans come in first. Humans have to think about what’s the creative solution? What is the baseline, the process that exists today, evolve that process, eliminate the friction, and then use these technologies to integrate so that you are the director, but also now it’s specific. To your business, your challenges, your consumers, and elevates that storytelling in a a way that’s really, uh, also elevating your brand voice and your values.

[00:27:56] Sergio Cardona: Yeah, and, and one thing that I liked also is that it gives you a different outtake of. What you were thinking, right? You come in with this idea and other sudden a color palette, a shape or something that unexpected, you know, a happy mistake. You’re like, oh, I, I was not thinking about it this way. Right? And sometimes even those, let’s call it mistakes through your prompt, that gives you a different output, might inspire a different outcome.

[00:28:27] Sergio Cardona: Completely different than you are. You know, expecting the result was, so by integrating all these tools, you are able to kind of expand your reach in a, you know, in a more efficient faster matter. You’re like, oh God, I wasn’t thinking about it this way. Right. And it, it’s just amazing what is able to do.

[00:28:50] Tessa Burg: I agree. Well, Sergio, this has been a great conversation and we are at time. If people want to reach out to you directly, how can they find you?

[00:28:59] Sergio Cardona: Well, they can go to LinkedIn and they can also find me at [email protected].

[00:29:08] Tessa Burg: Perfect. And like I mentioned, we’re gonna be having more conversations on how AI can elevate insights. Automate repeatable tasks and help make your outputs more measurable and higher impact. We’re really excited to bring more voice to the table who are in our AI adoption group, AI practice group and council.

[00:29:29] Tessa Burg: And Sergio, thank you so much for leading AI design and helping us to advance how we use these tools to serve our clients.

[00:29:36] Sergio Cardona: Great. Thank you for having me.

[00:29:38] Tessa Burg: If you wanna hear more Leader Generation episodes, you can visit mod op.com, modop.com. It is under the Van Guardian, or scroll down to podcasts. You can also find us on any of your favorite podcast channels by searching Leader Generation. Uh, and until next time, Sergio, I’m sure we’ll be talking again soon. Thanks for being our guest.

[00:30:02] Sergio Cardona: Bye.