Digital Transformation: Why People Matter As Much As Tech

[00:00:00] Tessa Burg: Hello and welcome to another episode of Leader Generation, brought to you by Mod Op. I’m your host, Tessa Burg, CTO. Here at Mod Op. Today I’m joined by Katya Lobynko. She’s the Global IT and Data Strategy Director at Danone and board member for Proctor and Gamble’s alumni network. We’re very excited to have her here today because as we can all feel we’re in an area of extreme and sometimes chaotic digital transformation. 

[00:00:30] Tessa Burg: But even though the tech that’s available to us is unbelievable and amazing, and we’ve never had access to technology like this before, our digital transformation projects are still failing. So we’re gonna jump in with Katya and learn why do digital transformations fail, even when the tech is great. 

[00:00:49] Tessa Burg: Katya, thanks so much for joining us today.  

[00:00:52] Katya Lobynko: Thank you, Tessa. I’m excited to be here.  

[00:00:56] Tessa Burg: So before we get to the conversation, we’d love to learn more about your background and your career journey.  

[00:01:05] Katya Lobynko: Thank you. I am a digital transformation professional with, uh, 15 years of experience. At the same time, I’m also a person who is fascinated by technologies and is really excited about the impact that can make on the business. 

[00:01:22] Katya Lobynko: Uh, my career portfolio includes, uh. Projects and programs spanning from commercial and marketing areas all the way through to data and business intelligence, as well as the transformation programs as I’ve already mentioned.  

[00:01:40] Tessa Burg: So when digital transformation actually works, what do you see happening differently inside the organization? 

[00:01:48] Katya Lobynko: When I think about any digital transformation, I look at it from a simple three P framework, which is people, processes, and priorities. And ’cause people always come first, right? When it comes to people, it’s very important to do two things. One is to include the people who are your future users of whatever digital tool you’re bringing into the design, because you really need to gather the inputs, understand the pain points, but also create a buy-in. 

[00:02:18] Katya Lobynko: By doing that and, and design co-designing the, the solutions together. Uh, then at the same time, you need to make sure that people have ownership, right? Level of governance and also capacity to, to do this digital transformation and all this three, uh, piece, uh, a very closely interlinked. The, the time and capacity also relates to the prior prioritization and, and priorities. 

[00:02:47] Katya Lobynko: Um, you cannot do all the things at the same time. So in the, in the ideal world, if we talk about big digital transformation, uh, programs, you will start from your master data. Then you would do your ERP only, then you would do all, all of the other platforms that connect to ERP, like CRMs, et cetera, et cetera, your data solutions. 

[00:03:08] Katya Lobynko: But in the, in reality, it doesn’t happen this way, right? So we, we wanna change all of these things at the same time. It’s a very not easy, uh, puzzle to solve. That’s why it’s very important to, to prioritize. And I’m a big proponent of a lean startup framework. Right. So really starting small, prioritizing, uh, doing your prototype MVP starting from one area or one geography, and then scaling it, uh, broader. 

[00:03:36] Katya Lobynko: I think as we moved away from Waterfall into Agile, the, the, the era of big bangs is, is kind of over. Right, because we really, it, it’s about incremental scaling and, and, and growth. So it’s important to prioritize and, and not try to boil the ocean because this, this approach never works. And then the, the third component, which is in, in incredibly important is pro processes. 

[00:03:59] Katya Lobynko: So with your people and with the priorities that you identified, you need to really sit down and. Understand how the business process works, map it out together with, with the teams, um, because this business process mapping will become the basis of your core model. And then it and, and then you need to, to make a choice of how much you want to standardize. 

[00:04:23] Katya Lobynko: Do you want to build a, an absolutely global a hundred percent, uh, core model that’s standard everywhere, which would be incredibly, which is possible, but incredibly ambitious because the markets do have, and different geographies have different peculiarities of how they operate. You wanna do 80/20 or 50/50 because anything that you do custom, uh, costs a lot of money. 

[00:04:46] Katya Lobynko: So you really need to, need to, need to be very clear about how much standardization you want to drive, uh, across the board. And then with these three points, uh, depending on how much you invest and how much you prioritize, how much you bring people along with you and make sure they have capacity to implement a transformation, how well you map your processes, understand them. 

[00:05:11] Katya Lobynko: Design the core model and then stick to it during implementation. So, so you don’t have the, the scope, uh, so your scope isn’t creeping, uh, that defines the, the quality of success of digital transformation for me. 

[00:05:27] Tessa Burg: So we. Look at that time and capacity, and now it’s stood up. So we’re at the implementation phase. What are some of the keys to success to going from the implementation phase to true adoption and change? 

[00:05:43] Katya Lobynko: I think it all goes back and I’m, I’m gonna continue referring to this, uh, three piece that I, that I mentioned. The successful adoption is a function of several things, one of which goes back to, uh. Uh, the quality of the business, of a new business process that you designed, because if, if you did a quality, quality job designing and, and mapping it out involving the people, then it’s gonna sail. 

[00:06:10] Katya Lobynko: Uh, then there’s also an element of the quality of the data. So it it, because data is, is now everything, uh, apart from, from the tools. So if you did, apart from your main tool, whatever you are, you are launching, you took care of your data, including the master data, then you maximize your, your chances of success and adoption. 

[00:06:34] Katya Lobynko: Because if. Whatever people see in your tool is correct and reflects the reality. IT people want to continue using it if it gives them the right direction, right kind, uh, insights. They want to use it because they find it helpful. And then the third part is, is your adoption support. And that includes your, so you, you can have your coaching, your ambassadors network, your documentation, et cetera. 

[00:07:00] Katya Lobynko: So we all think about adoption as. Oftentimes one shot thing. So you do your training and then you assume that now they know how to use it, and then, and then they run with it. But, uh, in reality, it’s, it’s very rarely the case. So you really need to have this network, right, because things take time to sink in, especially in new things and new knowledge. 

[00:07:23] Katya Lobynko: So you need to have this network of people who will support. In, in the field on the job where, where users are, will, would be able to, and to support users on a daily basis almost. Right? So I think this is what really helps drive the adoption  

[00:07:42] Tessa Burg: And I think a lot of people may not realize what a large investment it is in that change network. 

[00:07:51] Tessa Burg: That it’s not just one person. That it’s not just, we did a training and we’ll check back in with you, but that was a really powerful statement you made that it’s, it can be daily and daily points of validation. I know right now people who can lead through change are, are special. Like not everyone can do that. 

[00:08:14] Tessa Burg: And what are some of the qualities that you’re seeing that make someone a really great change leader. Or someone who can really help bring people through that adoption and that change curve. 

[00:08:28] Katya Lobynko: I think there are two. Factors and, and again, right? So any, any leader leadership skills is, any soft skill is something that you can acquire, right? And, and train and, and hear the mindset really can elevate it. So the, the, the mindset that you, that, that you bring into your transformation, uh, program. There are two. 

[00:08:50] Katya Lobynko: Qualities or behaviors that I have observed, which I believe help a lot to drive the, the transformation, uh, and maximize the chances of success. One is, over communicating on the why of transformation. And again, it goes back to the point of. Don’t assume that if you once showed your wide deck to the senior stakeholders or to your organization, then everyone now understands why you’re doing it, right? 

[00:09:21] Katya Lobynko: Because, things take time to sink in. So it’s very important so you keep on repeating it and keep on leading with why? Because any change, it’s all human nature that any change is difficult, right? So, it’s very natural because it, it’s part of our survival mechanism. 

[00:09:38] Katya Lobynko: If the context is good, then our, our mind says, don’t change the context, because that, that’s, that’s what helps us survive, right? So it, it’s very counterintuitive, but any, even, any positive change is, uh, first perceived with resistance. So we, we need to be ready as, as leaders, uh, to, to, to work with that because it’s a, it’s, it’s a very natural thing. 

[00:10:03] Katya Lobynko: So coming back to, to my point of leading with why you, you really need to, uh, explain several times, uh, why you’re doing this change and what kind of be benefits it will bring to, to the business so that this part is very hard to, uh. Overestimate. And the second part, which I have observed successful leaders do is really empower all levels of organization to be the change agents. 

[00:10:33] Katya Lobynko: Again, it’s not only the senior leadership or top management, uh, business to drive the transformation. And steer the ship. You, you really need to have all the way to the, to the very, uh, first line managers in, in your teams or organizations who need to be empowered and equipped, equipped to, with information, with, with enough authority and mandate to be able to explain people, support, ex explain why in the, in the language that this particular team and unit understands. 

[00:11:08] Katya Lobynko: Uh, because it’s, it’s really one of the important things is that the transformation is same way as data or innovation. It’s not one person’s business. It’s everyone’s business and work, right? So we all are change agents and we all are innovation, uh, leaders, uh, and we all work with data. So you cannot, it’s not only IT and data teams who do that. 

[00:11:36] Katya Lobynko: So we all work with that. So it’s, it’s a very distributed model of operation. So it’s very important that we empower the leaders on every level, uh, to, to do their, their best job.  

[00:11:52] Tessa Burg: I love that answer because you’re approaching the change with one. A lot of empathy for, hey, we know everyone has their own context and they’re comfortable today in that, but if we come together on something, shared, this shared, why, we’ll be able to move to something together. 

[00:12:15] Tessa Burg: And it’s not about, Hey, I’m telling you to do this, or I’m telling you need to operate this way. But as you said, being a good change leader can be trained. You can learn it, and I think that’s a large part of the empowerment too, is just making sure that everyone top down, bottom up understands that what is required in change if I’m empowered to be a change agent. 

[00:12:41] Tessa Burg: What does that mean? And that is those skills. Even just that awareness that it is a process gives me that validation that, okay, I’m gonna feel uncomfortable, but I’m going to be able to move through this because I’m very invested in the why I’m very invested and getting to a place that with my coworkers, with this business that’s bigger than myself, but it still is very personal when you’re going through it because. 

[00:13:10] Tessa Burg: You gotta-  

[00:13:11] Katya Lobynko: Absolutely.  

[00:13:12] Tessa Burg: Feel comfortable being very uncomfortable.  

[00:13:16] Katya Lobynko: Absolutely.  

[00:13:19] Tessa Burg: So when transformations involve areas like media, promotions, operations, just these different, very different departments and the systems are are different. How do you continue to bring that level of empowerment or bring that level of empathy to kind of all come together and make those decisions around, not just in global markets, but between departments, like what needs to be standardized and what needs to, and what, what needs to be standardized, what needs to be prioritized, and then what becomes shared. 

[00:13:59] Katya Lobynko: I think this is where the magic of, uh, governance, uh, really helps because we, in many cases, uh, in different industries, organizations, we all operate in a metrics model. So, and, and it’s, it happens. So be the reason why we all operate in this model is because for better or for worse, the business community and humankind did not come up with a more efficient model. 

[00:14:26] Katya Lobynko: So we all complain about it. We all are not fans, right? We, we all, it’s very difficult, right? There are different conflicted priorities and communicating is very challenging. As a matter of fact, this is what, what works the best in its all in, in, in imperfection as well. So it’s very important to get the governance right. 

[00:14:48] Katya Lobynko: So different, different functions, teams, geographies, uh, which are sometimes can operate as silos, talk, talk together and uh, make collective decisions. And here what helps is, uh. Having a clear mapping of, uh, who does what and how decisions are made. I know that, uh, different people have different opinion of rasi or pace or it, it, it, it may be called in, in, in differently in different companies and industries. 

[00:15:19] Katya Lobynko: But if you, if you use a try, if you really are clear on who, who is accountable for what, who makes a decision, who is only informed, then it really helps moving it, moving it forward. Um, another important part is, uh, being aligned on the problem statement and definition. So we’ve already spoke about keeping why. 

[00:15:42] Katya Lobynko: Always on top of everyone’s mind, uh, and really remembering why are we doing all of that? So what’s the outcome for, for our consumers, our patients, our shareholders, for our teams, right? If we’re doing something to be more efficient as a, as a team organization. Um, so we really need to be, uh, and, and that’s for me, 80% of success to be aligned on, on the problem statement and what problems we, we are solving, uh, and really. 

[00:16:11] Katya Lobynko: You’ve already, uh, mentioned it as well, so it, it’s something bigger than all of us. So you need to put this, this something bigger, uh, above personal interest and, and, and personal temporary discomfort that, that we all can feel, uh, which I think helps a lot.  

[00:16:31] Tessa Burg: Yeah. And I feel like companies with very aspirational big visions where people can. 

[00:16:37] Tessa Burg: They believe in what the company stands for and they align on those values. That becomes a lot easier to bring more people along because there’s already that kind of culture of we’re all in this together. One of the things on a functional level is AI has a lot of promises, people position AI as maybe that catalyst for transformation or some executives feel like it could make it move faster or be an enabler. 

[00:17:06] Tessa Burg: How should digital transformation leaders think about AI? 

[00:17:14] Katya Lobynko: I love a lot your question because if we, uh, it’s, it’s, that’s one of the aspects why I love technology and, and different, different kind of technologies because if we take a step back, there’s al always, there are always this hype cycles one after another. So. While ago the applications were very big. 

[00:17:36] Katya Lobynko: Then we moved to virtual reality, augmented reality, uh, cloud, chat bots. Right now it’s gen AI. So it it, which is go going down the hype cycle, right? Because now everyone cool down a little bit and people are like, okay, now I understand what it can and cannot do. Uh, so I’m really excited to see what’s the next. 

[00:17:56] Katya Lobynko: Uh, hype wave will be, whether it be quantum computing or something else. So that’s really an exciting part of, of the, uh, tech world. 

[00:18:06] Katya Lobynko: I have a really great example, uh, from, from the time when I was, uh. Working on creating a conversational agent’s, capability. In one of my past companies, I, our team had people who come to us who would come to us and say, Hey, I have this website that, uh, people don’t really come to. 

[00:18:30] Katya Lobynko: Um, so I think I wanna put a conversational agent there, so then it solves my problems of my website.  

[00:18:38] Tessa Burg: Right.  

[00:18:38] Katya Lobynko: Not being visited. Right. Or I have a website that people come to, but then it’s so messy that they cannot find anything there. So I wanna put a, a conversational agent to, to, to help do that. Right? 

[00:18:51] Katya Lobynko: And for me it’s, it’s very indicative and representative of how we’re trying to solve. Everything with, uh, with, uh, with the technology, which is now at, at the top, at the peak of its hype, right? Because this web website example, right? It, it’s not about conversational agents at all. It’s about, uh, looking at relevant content for your, for your users, uh, doing your SEO, looking at your user journey and the funnel, right? 

[00:19:22] Katya Lobynko: Et cetera. So there are so many things. Same goes to gen AI. And this is the part where AI with intelligence is just artificial. So, and the part of the intelligence is all about the use case and understanding where it can help you and where it cannot. Right. We now know that, um, gen AI is, is as a large language models is really good at language stuff. 

[00:19:47] Katya Lobynko: Right. But we also know that when it comes to deterministic, uh, things, it’s not good. So we use the deterministic, uh, AI algorithms for our promotion, um, optimization or demand plan and et cetera, et cetera, right? So there are many different different use cases. So it’s very important to, to really to, to approach any technology, not, not from, okay, let’s use technology because everyone uses it, but more from a, from an angle of a real business case and use case, and really understanding why this particular technology can do something that nothing else can. 

[00:20:30] Katya Lobynko: Uh, what’s the business output? What’s the output for your consumers or users? So it’s, it’s, it’s your, it’s always technologies change, but this remains your North Star that will always help you decide whether you need to invest or give it a try or not. And then coming back to, to my point of Lean Startup, uh. 

[00:20:53] Katya Lobynko: Just do it incrementally. Right. So do, do a prototype. So in, in the, in the age of conversational agents, we would, we would just do the, the wire frame, which would be visual, visual screens of how conversational agent would talk and do with like zero AI behind. And then we would see, okay, is it used, we would put it somewhere on a, on a website for, for a very short time, see if it’s used or not, or get a panel of people to test it. 

[00:21:20] Katya Lobynko: Then you move to your MVP or et cetera, et cetera. Right. So I think this two to. Being the business case and the use case, which you can explain. And second, uh, learn doing a quick MVP or prototype to get you learning quickly and then see if you need to continue investing or you need to kill this idea right here and now are really helpful and, and very valuable general tools for that, that help you approach any new technology. 

[00:21:52] Tessa Burg: Yeah, I love that piece of advice and I feel like. Sometimes leaders really struggle to approve the prototype approach because they perceive, they think that it won’t get them to their results or their angles fast enough. And we’re hearing a lot about, you know, we should be moving faster. We need to get to this faster. 

[00:22:18] Tessa Burg: But the reality is when you start with a prototype and a skinny MVP. Because you’re getting real feedback sooner. It goes back to your framework. You’re understanding what the people in the equation really actually need, and the clearer you are on that understanding of what they need, the clearer you are on, what are the next features, what are the next experiences? 

[00:22:46] Tessa Burg: What’s the data that’s gonna be underneath that that’s really going to move them? And then that equation then does move faster when you’re more crystal on, okay, we have a measurable way to understand this person’s need, and that’s gonna allow us to develop and to create the right features and experiences to meet that need. 

[00:23:08] Katya Lobynko: You are absolutely right, and I think when, when I was listening to you, I thought of a phrase, um. Slow down to speed up. And it’s, again, it can, it can feel counterintuitive because as, as you said, in this day and age, it’s all like, we need everything yesterday. Right. But exactly to your point, the sooner you can get the feedback from real users right, and real people, the faster you will be able to decide if you, if you continue or not. 

[00:23:37] Katya Lobynko: And then in a very pragmatic way. There are now. Multiple, multiple tools to get a quick feedback. In one of my past roles when we were working on a consumer applications for people with allergies, we would get, we would get on this testing platform. 

[00:23:54] Katya Lobynko: I’m not gonna name names, but there are many of them. Right? So you, so you get your prototype, which is a visual wire frame of the app, not, not the real app. You put it out, you say, okay, I want 20 people with certain, um, demo of certain demographics and profiles to test it. Right. And for it, it’s honestly, it’s pure magic because for me, we would put it out, uh, in the evening of u European time in the morning when I wake up because the, the project was for, for us, uh, consumers. 

[00:24:29] Katya Lobynko: When I wake up in the morning, I already have the feedback of 20 people from US. Because they did it o overnight, right? So it’s to your point, right, it can literally be a matter of hours, right? So don’t, don’t it, it, because sometimes the, uh, people can think that, oh, it’s very difficult to get this feedback. 

[00:24:47] Katya Lobynko: How would I get it? Where do I find this users? And what about regulation and what about this, this, and that. But there are a lot of very compliant ways to get your feedback in matter of hours, which is absolutely precious.  

[00:25:01] Tessa Burg: Yep. No, I agree. So, Katya, we’re actually already at time, but before we get off, since you are a digital transformation leader and you also love technology and you have, I mean, these have been some great frameworks and I would say pillars of, uh. 

[00:25:23] Tessa Burg: Successful change that people can really work into their plan from the people priorities, process, framework to empowering people bottom up, top down, and what it means to be a change leader and having that empathy. That it has to happen at that personal level in order to build something bigger than yourself, and there’s just where we ended. 

[00:25:43] Tessa Burg: I appreciate the examples you gave. I think this is very relatable to a lot of folks who are going through large transformation projects right now and finding some comfort in they should be starting small and getting that feedback in order to slow down to move fast. My last question is. What are you most looking forward to in 2026? 

[00:26:04] Tessa Burg: As we continue to navigate this changing landscape and the changes at our enterprises. 

[00:26:12] Katya Lobynko: I am looking forward to, giving people more meaningful, interesting. Work thanks to technologies and thanks to technologies, um, automating or taking over the tasks which are repetitive, not interesting, uh, boring, and uh, are not there for people to learn and enjoy. I’m also looking forward to, um, seeing technologies deliver business impact. 

[00:26:49] Katya Lobynko: On either increase of the top line, uh, or savings. The economy is very turbulent, right? And the, there are many, many, um. 

[00:26:59] Katya Lobynko: Different kind of challenges that that, uh, that we all face. But I think this is where technology can help big time to make it easier to navigate and to come back to growth, uh, at some point very, very soon. So I’m really, uh, excited about the positive impact on, uh, people’s daily lives personally and professionally that technologies bring. 

[00:27:24] Tessa Burg: I love that answer, especially because it’s so different than a lot of the hype that we hear, which is technology or AI is taking jobs. When we, if we embrace the change that’s happening now, then we all have the power to give people that gift of work, of work they actually enjoy of it being more fulfilling. 

[00:27:44] Tessa Burg: But as we’ve talked about, it’s an investment and it is a process. So we’ll have to be able, and we’ll have to be equipped with the right skills and the right frameworks in order to work through what that change in that transformation looks like. Well, thank you so much for being on today. 

[00:28:02] Tessa Burg: If listeners have any questions or they wanna reach out to you directly, where can they find you?  

[00:28:09] Katya Lobynko: They can find me on LinkedIn, uh, and I would be very curious to hear the feedback and get some questions and continue the conversation there.  

[00:28:18] Tessa Burg: Oh, that’s awesome. Thank you Katya. And for everyone else who wants to hear more episodes of Leader Generation, you can find them at modop.com. 

[00:28:28] Tessa Burg: That’s modop.com/podcasts or search LeaderGeneration, wherever you listen to podcasts. And we’ll have to do a follow up at the end of the year and see what kinds of transformations have led to more meaningful work in enterprises. I think that would be like a great. That, that’ll be like a good end of year capstone because I feel like right now we’re in that midst of like use a lot of resistance, a lot of worry. 

[00:28:55] Tessa Burg: But we are coming off that hype cycle, so I am sharing the hope with you that there will be good things to come.  

[00:29:03] Katya Lobynko: Thank you, Tessa. It’s been, it’s been a pleasure.