Why Cheap CPMs Are Dead & Outcomes Matter More Than Ever

[00:00:00] Tessa Burg: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Leader Generation, brought to you by Mod Op. I’m your host, Tessa Burg, and today I am joined by Zach Rosen. Zach and I are gonna jump into a very big topic that personally I’m super interested in. This is the first time we’re talking about this on the podcast, but it’s all about trimming that fat in programmatic media, not being able to see which impressions are reaching who, and it’s estimated to be about a $20 billion problem.

[00:00:32] Tessa Burg: And now there are alternatives emerging that allow you to spend your media in line with your brand values, your brand identity, and reach more niche audiences in the right moments. So really excited to jump in, learn more about not only why this is important to do now, but how, and explore some of the different avenues we can take so that we’re really connecting with our audiences in new ways that deliver value to them.

[00:01:02] Tessa Burg: So Zach, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:01:05] Zach Rosen: Tessa, thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here.

[00:01:08] Tessa Burg: So before we jump into the topic, I want us to learn a little bit more about you and where you’re at right now.

[00:01:15] Zach Rosen: Yeah. So, uh, my, my, uh, my path to ad tech and programmatic was, was, was maybe a little unconventional.

[00:01:22] Zach Rosen: I started, um, on the back lot at NBC Universal. Um, so background in, in kind of entertainment and branded content. Um, what I really loved about that at the time was, was kind of early days, um, brand integration strategies into entertainment, um, building a, a brand story and really capturing a, a kind of moment of joy for the consumer as they were watching a, a TV program, and being able to connect that back to, um, brand loyalty or, or brand adoption and some sort of outcome for a marketer.

[00:01:53] Zach Rosen: Um, so those were the early days that kind of showed me that spark of media and entertainment and technology and what could happen when those three things came together. Um, and over time, that led me into the kind of startup world in Silicon Valley, and then eventually to, um, to New York City working in the, in the ad tech scene.

[00:02:12] Tessa Burg: And today you are at a company called Multilocal?

[00:02:17] Zach Rosen: Multilocal, that’s right. Yeah.

[00:02:20] Tessa Burg: And what, uh… Tell us a little bit about Multilocal.

[00:02:24] Zach Rosen: Yeah. So Multilocal, uh, you know, I, um, I started advising for Multilocal about two years ago- And, um, loved what the founder had built, loved what the team had put together, and, um, I saw that there was a there there, and a real need in the market for their solution.

[00:02:40] Zach Rosen: Essentially, Multilocal’s created a kind of AI-driven intelligence engine that’s looking at marketer, um, goals, looking at their kind of campaign KPIs and budgets, looking at all the available, um, ecosystem of supply and data across many different supply paths and marketplaces. And it’s kind of making the best decisions about how to route that budget in the most efficient way, and in a way that’s most performant for the client.

[00:03:04] Zach Rosen: Um, and kind of saves them, you know, as, as, as much as possible and, and kind of the most efficient outcome. Um, so really a, a smarter way to leverage a lot of the existing tools and, and, um, paths that are out there in the market. Um, uh, kind of leveraging, you know… Shifts in the market, um, that are pulling a lot of the data and inventory decisioning on how media is planned and purchased from the buy side, from the advertiser side, closer to the end publisher and closer to the impression.

[00:03:35] Tessa Burg: Yeah, and I love before the call, you were giving me a little bit more background on some of the conversations you’ve been leading in really high visible places around sort of the power of curation and the value, as you, you put the there there. I r- I love that phrase. That to me is like the done done.

[00:03:54] Tessa Burg: Like I think about it,

[00:03:54] Zach Rosen: yeah. I’m like, all the time, I’m like, “Is this, is this something that I can get behind? Is this something I can put my name on?” And most importantly, “Is this something that I can deliver value on for the relationships I’ve built for the last 15 years?” Um, so for me- Love it … it kind of checked those boxes, and that was my, that was my there there with Multilocal.

[00:04:14] Tessa Burg: I lo- And right now, when AI and generative AI, creative creative, created creative is out in the market, there’s a need and a want and a desire for brands to feel more aligned with where they’re spending their money and more aligned with where their brand message shows up. And so I, I love this idea of you’re using these existing routes, but you’re really…

[00:04:39] Tessa Burg: You call it the curation cure. You’re really making it a highly specific avenue for each brand to reach their specific audience. Let’s rewind a little bit and talk about the conversations you’ve had in and around the trends for that. Tell me… You were just at Possible. Tell me, like-

[00:04:57] Zach Rosen: I was

[00:04:58] Tessa Burg: … yeah, like what was-

[00:05:00] Zach Rosen: I was.

[00:05:00] Zach Rosen: I was … there was it

[00:05:01] Tessa Burg: blowing up my LinkedIn feed. Like, what were the conversations? What were the takeaways? How did this message of curation, like, resonate at that show?

[00:05:09] Zach Rosen: Sure. I mean, it’s dizzying, right? There are, there were over, I think, 8,000 attendees between- Oh my gosh … kind of ticketed and, and, um, lobby hoppers at Possible.

[00:05:17] Zach Rosen: The Fountainbleau was just swarming with activity. Um, we personally took over 30 meetings over the course of three days. Wow. Um, spoke on some panels, hosted some, the more intimate moments for our, our, our existing customers, um, to stay connected with, with what they’re thinking about in the future. Um, and so I’ve, I’ve just kind of, I’ve just gotten my voice back.

[00:05:38] Zach Rosen: Um, I’m just feeling like I’m a little bit kind of recalibrated and, and have my energy back. Um, but it was a great conference. I think one of the biggest takeaways for me, um, was just a, a, a stat and, and a kind of commentary that what we’re seeing right now, um, you know, with, with AI, with generative AI, with agentic AI, enabling AI agents to do a lot of communicate, communicating and, and operational tasks, um, is actually the worst

[00:06:06] Zach Rosen: Um, we’re seeing kind of the worst of it right now. It’s only gonna get better. Um, and the pace of change with AI is the slowest that we’re ever going to experience for the rest of our lifetime. Right. So when you think about those things, um, it can be a little scary, but I think on the flip side, there’s kind of great power and, and opportunity in all of that, um, to really rethink how we plan media, how we buy media, how we optimize media, how brands leverage AI to help tell their stories or, um, become stronger on the human element.

[00:06:37] Zach Rosen: Um, and so all of those things are, are a little bit unknown. They’re a little undefined. I think there’s certainly lots of confusion around all of it. Um, but I think there’s, there’s something exciting about the unknown and about, um, that, that pace of change. Um, if you can embrace it, I, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s a lot of opportunity to kind of define what the next 10 plus years look like in, in media.

[00:06:59] Zach Rosen: So that was a, an overarching theme that I think, um, underscored the conference and certainly was a highlight of, of kind of all the conversations that we’re having with our clients as we think about, um, what they’re doing now and, and where they wanna go with us in the future.

[00:07:15] Tessa Burg: Yeah, I’ve heard the phrase a lot, especially in podcasts I listen to, that the AI we have today is the least capable AI we’ll ever have.

[00:07:25] Tessa Burg: But you just said a phrase that I think is even scarier, which is that- … the pace of change is the slowest. And right now in, in all businesses, people are not keeping up, and they are feeling very overwhelmed by the demand to do more with less. There’s this expectation that I should be paying less for things I used to buy, especially when it comes to media and creative services.

[00:07:59] Tessa Burg: And something that you’ve spoken about is, you know, there are no more cheap CPMs, but in fact, for- Media for created inventory that you’re delivering, it does cost a little bit more, but ultimately results in a lower cost per outcome. How do you– ’cause th- this is, I feel like this is the answer you give is going to help everyone in all of their pricing conversations.

[00:08:28] Tessa Burg: But it really gets to the heart of what’s actually happening with AI. Like, we’re not actually saving time. It is hard to spend less, but we are getting higher quality and better outcomes. So how do you have that conversation with clients and help them reconcile that, yes, yes it is a little bit more expensive, but cost per outcome does come down?

[00:08:49] Zach Rosen: Sure. Um, you know, I think every conversation is different with each client. Some clients are looking for that value play, but in most cases, we’re seeing a shift towards performance. We’re seeing a shift towards outcomes. Um, and our clients wanna make sure they’re, they’re really, um, using, um, you know, our intelligence engine combined with the existing supply paths and relationships they have in place to maximize how they spend those, those, the, you know, their ad wallet.

[00:09:15] Zach Rosen: Um, and so it’s about reaching the right user in the right moment, um, and in the right environment, a, a clean, brand-safe environment. Um, and, you know, and historically, um, you know, many of the ad tech vendors in the ecosystem, a lot of the SSPs would, um, would kind of take it upon themselves to shape the traffic, shape the audiences that were sent downstream to the, the buying platform that represented the, the agency or the marketer client, um, uh, you know, using what data they had, um, to try to drive that efficiency, make sure that the, that the advertisers saw the most relevant users to, to, to evaluate and to bid or buy media against.

[00:09:53] Zach Rosen: Um, now what we’re seeing is this kind of massive shift, um, to the sell side. We call it sell-side decisioning. Um, and this is really what’s driving the, the, the kind of curation innovation that’s happening, um, in the market. Um, uh, when, uh, when the SSP and when the, when the decisions can be made closer to the, the kind of end user, the impression, um, we can drive so much more efficiency with, um, with how we identify the right users in those right moments, um, and kind of allocate just exactly what the, the marketer’s looking for, you know, i-in advance of, of them making those buying decisions Um, and that’s, that’s more performant for the client.

[00:10:33] Zach Rosen: It drives better outcomes, it drives better user acquisition for them. Um, and in many cases we’re actually seeing that it can be more efficient as well. So, um, in some cases, finding that, that right user in that right moment, that does come at a, at a, at a premium. Um, but when you look at the kind of overall volume of buying, we’re actually seeing in many cases that that efficiency in buying or the efficiency in the media costs, um, can be coupled with an increase in performance.

[00:11:00] Zach Rosen: Um, when we apply our intelligence engine in any transaction on our SSP pipes, we see on average a 37% reduction in the cost to buy that user to, to acquire that, um, that, that, that, that, that audience in that moment. Uh, and we see anywhere from a 40 to 60% lift in performance depending on the unique goals or KPIs of that, of that customer, whether it be an outcome or a conversion or something, um, you know, like driving a video completion rate, um, in, a TV or, or streaming environment.

[00:11:33] Zach Rosen: Um, and so, you know, that is, that I think is, proof and, and, and kind of putting in practice, you know, what we’re, um, what we’re advocating for and, and what we’re actually seeing when, when clients, um, can come back to us with those, with those results.

[00:11:49] Tessa Burg: Yeah, and I, I really like pricing on outcomes and, and using outcomes as the core story of what in general clients are paying for as opposed to the amounts and the mass of impressions because it’s not tied to value.

[00:12:10] Tessa Burg: And ultimately what clients want is that ROI. I feel like across lots of different services, the more we’re able to price on outcomes or show higher value per outcome, the, the better. Because I mean, I was just at a conference and the conversation that popped up over and over again is I’ve been spending X number of dollars in media, I should be spending less now.

[00:12:37] Tessa Burg: It should be getting better, right? And it’s like I don’t… Well, I don’t know. I don’t know if you should be spending less, but what are you getting for it today? Yeah. And with AI, you should be getting more. Now, that piece directly ties to what AI does really well, which is recognize patterns, give you insights, able to optimize in speed and in quality like never before because this is technology we haven’t had like ever before.

[00:13:10] Tessa Burg: Yeah. But there’s nothing about AI that says- you’re going to spend less. I feel like that’s just been like the human fallacy we’ve put on top of it since we’re like, “Well, it moved faster, so it’s shorter, so it should be less cost.” And that is, that’s not a direct line. What is a direct line is higher performance, higher quality, better ability to measure, better abil- like, all of those things.

[00:13:36] Tessa Burg: But to your point-

[00:13:37] Zach Rosen: It’s all those metrics that really drive value-

[00:13:39] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm

[00:13:39] Zach Rosen: … you know, for the market at the end of the day. Um, and, um, and, and doing so in a way that’s more efficient. So I think it’s, it’s more about, it’s more about the value than it is about, um, you know, kind of acquiring cheap inventory. Um, and so, you know, and so that’s, that’s really kind of our, our mantra and, and, and what we’re helping our, our customers to, to realize.

[00:14:01] Zach Rosen: Um, and I think the other part of it is, is feedback from the market. Um, if you talk to anyone, you know, um, kind of in-house with brands, if you talk to any agencies at the indies or the holdcos, you’ll hear a kind of common theme, which is, “We don’t need more vendors. We don’t need more solutions. We don’t want somebody to come in and kind of uproot the systems that we’ve already put in place,” because they’ve invested so much, you know, in, in building those solutions.

[00:14:25] Zach Rosen: What they do need are, are, are partners and, and kind of tooling and solutions that help them, um, work better and work smarter on those systems that they know they wanna use. And so that’s, that’s the other kind of side of the approach we took, which was rather than, than trying to kind of bring someone, um, away from what they’ve invested in and away from what they know is, is working to some degree for them, can we kind of meet them where they are and bring them more tools and insights and intelligence that just helps the market to work smarter and work more efficiently, leveraging these technologies, um, in, in, in a, in a kind of smarter way to work.

[00:15:01] Zach Rosen: Um, so it’s really about meeting the client where they are, rather than, um, trying to kind of uproot the entire system.

[00:15:08] Tessa Burg: Yeah, and, and I like what you have brought to light about, uh, in a conversation, I think you had this conversation at Cannes Lions about labels and these really broad customer buckets.

[00:15:23] Tessa Burg: And that’s another promise of AI, is that we’re gonna be able to get more personalized, and with this curation and the multi-local approach, you’re able to target and engage with a consumer based on that engagement in the moment, not just because they fell into some sort of broad bucket. And I l- I, I think that that is so powerful because, yes, you can live in a place, and yes, you can meet certain characteristics, but there is nothing that truly gives either interest, engagement, or buying signals like what you’re actually doing in the moment.

[00:16:03] Zach Rosen: That’s right. And it’s… I think there’s, there’s two ways that I think about that. One is, um, you know, we can go so much further beyond, um, a single segment that’s been kind of pre-bucketed for a user, right? Going beyond that kind of line item in an Excel spreadsheet, um, to find the right consumers for, for our partners.

[00:16:23] Zach Rosen: Um, and so in many cases, we have customers who come to us and they say, “Here’s my approach. Here are the, the vendors or the kind of audience segments that I know are gonna perform really well for me that, that kinda meet the needs of, um, of my campaign or where I can kinda match my, my consumers, um, as they’re streaming content on Paramount Plus or, or browsing on Wall Street Journal.”

[00:16:44] Zach Rosen: Um, and so in some cases we’ll use our technology to kind of validate that, “Hey, you’ve got the right approach. You’re thinking about this the right way, um, and we’re gonna help you, um, drive even more efficiency on that strategy.” But I think the real beauty of that comes when we can say, um, you know, “You’re 80% there, but have you considered, um, this kind of 20% added opportunity, um, where we’re surfacing users and insights and consumers to you that, that you might not have considered that actually are really relevant for the goals of your campaign, um, and really kinda make all the difference in, in finding the right person in that, in that, in that really engaged moment?”

[00:17:22] Zach Rosen: Um, and, and so, you know, we did something recently for a client who wanted to find, um, eco-conscious fashionistas who were planning, um, travel to Europe for the summer. Um, and, and, and you know, when you start to kind of look at that nuanced audience, um, there are all kinds of places where, um, where that kind of profile pops up, and it’s not always, um, a- as obvious as it might seem on the surface.

[00:17:47] Zach Rosen: So finding those, those consumers in, in real moments of kind of engagement or, or joy and, and kind of challenging, um, the norm is, is, is a, is an exciting part of, of our work when we can kind of surprise and delight a client with something that they might not have considered, but that we see in practice really delivers well for their, for their campaign strategy and for their budget.

[00:18:09] Zach Rosen: Um, something that was interesting that came up in my talk at Cannes on a panel was that, um, half of Procter & Gamble’s, uh, brand growth over the last three years has come from including, uh, previously excluded audiences.

[00:18:23] Tessa Burg: Mm.

[00:18:24] Zach Rosen: If you think about that for a minute, um, you know, it starts to tell us, um, that one, you know, there are all kinds of pockets in the industry where engaged consumers or nuanced consumers or diverse consumers are consuming media, are consuming content, are reading or engaging with something.

[00:18:42] Zach Rosen: Um, and, you know, kind of re-including those excluded audiences can be really good for business. A kind of inclusivity, um, and getting creative with how we find those, those nuanced users can be good for business Um, and so that was something that’s really, you know, kind of stuck with, with me and, and it, and is a big part of our philosophy in how we, um, you know, plan media, activate media, and optimize media at Multilocal.

[00:19:07] Tessa Burg: I… That is so fascinating. And I-

[00:19:10] Zach Rosen: It’s interesting, right?

[00:19:11] Tessa Burg: Yes.

[00:19:12] Zach Rosen: Yeah. Well- We were kind of thinking about, like, diversity and, and kind of nuanced, um, identities or nuanced profiles and, and, and debating, you know, um, if, if that’s, if that can be kind of good for business beyond just being good for the mission of the company.

[00:19:29] Zach Rosen: Um, and I think the data points to, um, that absolutely being true.

[00:19:34] Tessa Burg: Yeah. No, I… And I f- feel like a lot of the times, again, like, we project assumptions onto personas and segments. Like, we say, yeah, we’re listening to the data, but at the same time we’re sort of giving, when we’re thinking about this audience and what they need and they want, there’s a lot of a projection of individuals’ perception of what that audience needs and wants.

[00:19:57] Tessa Burg: And it… I saw this at a company I worked at, and when we started looking at the data of who the actual buyer was, it definitely wasn’t as sexy as the personas we had created.

[00:20:09] Zach Rosen: Right. Right.

[00:20:10] Tessa Burg: That, you know, the people we went out and recruited for a focus group, and the people we included in the research, and the people that were included in who we were targeting, and then there were the people who bought, and they weren’t in those other groups.

[00:20:23] Tessa Burg: So how would we… Like, so it’s very, it’s always interesting to me that, sure, demographic, geographic information, knowing that is, that’s all it is, is it’s interesting. But actual behavioral patterns, actually what people are doing, how they’re engaging, and if you watch more… I, I always call it, like, just the implicit feedback.

[00:20:45] Tessa Burg: Like, not what I say, not the labels on me, but what I do, and do over time and in a pattern, is much more telling of interest, of real value-

[00:20:56] Zach Rosen: Yeah …

[00:20:56] Tessa Burg: of what your real values are, where you invest your time as a person.

[00:21:00] Zach Rosen: Right. Right.

[00:21:01] Tessa Burg: Uh, than, like, am I female, am I a mom?

[00:21:05] Zach Rosen: Yeah. And I think that’s where, like, that’s where there’s kind of so much excitement about, about, like, what finding deeper connections in data or making kind of non-obvious connections in data can start to tell us.

[00:21:18] Zach Rosen: Um, and as, and, you know, as you say that, I’m also thinking, um, there’s a lot of bias that we have as just, as, as human beings, like, using AI and using some of this new technology. Um, how I, like, write a prompt in Claude or in ChatGPT has a huge bearing on what the outcome or, or output of the information is that I get.

[00:21:39] Zach Rosen: So, um, you know, I think we, we talk a lot about being, um, fearful of, of kind of, like, being automated out of jobs or out of our, um, you know, out of our roles, but I think it’s equally- on us to, to kind of be responsible users and- Mm-hmm … kind of as unbiased as possible when we’re prompting AI and trying to get the right, the right output.

[00:22:00] Zach Rosen: Because to your point, um, you know, so much of, of what creates real value for a marketer and drives kind of allocation of media spend to a publisher who’s creating great journalism, producing great content at a great expense, um, you know, can be, um, can be overlooked in, in kind of what really performs.

[00:22:21] Tessa Burg: Yeah. I feel like especially when we hear conversations about how the foundational models were trained, there… Sometimes the conversation goes into this route of, “Well, don’t talk about bias because that’s not real,” and that, you know, that, that gets, like, politicized. Um, when we’re talking about bias in this conversation, it has nothing to do with that.

[00:22:44] Tessa Burg: What the-

[00:22:45] Zach Rosen: Right

[00:22:45] Tessa Burg: … what we’re saying is you as a responsible user have to be aware of bias because it directly has a negative impact on your outcomes. You know? Like, so we’re-

[00:22:56] Zach Rosen: Right. Yeah

[00:22:57] Tessa Burg: … you know, we’re… I… Sometimes people, like, start to shut down when you’re, when they’re think they’re hearing, like, too much, quote-unquote, “DEI.”

[00:23:04] Tessa Burg: But what we’re saying-

[00:23:05] Zach Rosen: Right

[00:23:05] Tessa Burg: … is if you have bias, you are legitimately taking potential buyers off the table. So it is so important when-

[00:23:12] Zach Rosen: Exactly. Yeah Yeah It’s, it’s, it’s all about, it’s all about, um, creating value for the, for the client and, and creating the best outcome possible. Um, and I think you-

[00:23:20] Tessa Burg: Yeah, and that’s why that P&G stat stands out so much.

[00:23:24] Tessa Burg: Like, that’s the-

[00:23:25] Zach Rosen: That’s fascinating

[00:23:26] Tessa Burg: Yeah. That’s the cost-

[00:23:27] Zach Rosen: Yeah

[00:23:27] Tessa Burg: … of exclusivity or the cost of bias is missing-

[00:23:30] Zach Rosen: Right

[00:23:31] Tessa Burg: … your growth areas.

[00:23:32] Zach Rosen: Right.

[00:23:33] Tessa Burg: The other thing that I think is interesting that AI can do when used responsibly and, and properly, not only can it s- it can s- it sees the patterns we can’t see, so that’s how you’re able to invite more people to the table, learn more about diverse audiences that are within your target set that you just didn’t know, and you ha- you have to stop- you have to start pushing back those assumptions.

[00:23:55] Tessa Burg: But it, it… When you talked about earlier, this is the pace of change is gonna gonna keep coming, the better habits we create today on responsible use and proper use of AI, the more we’ll be able to scale with that pace of change, because we will be just focused on the outcomes and not sort of the, you know, all the other factors that, again, sort of come, come because of assumptions or come because we’re holding onto the way things used to be.

[00:24:27] Tessa Burg: If you let go of that and you really focus on, “How do I get better and better outcomes?” Then keeping up with the pace of change is much more manageable

[00:24:35] Zach Rosen: Yeah, I mean, we s- as, as a team, we talk about, um, we talk about this all the time, and we, we say, you know, kind of, um, approach disruption as an invitation, not a threat.

[00:24:45] Zach Rosen: Um, and, and it, you know, it can be overwhelming. It can be, um, a little scary when you think about where you, where you start. Um, but the train has left the station, like, a long time ago. Um-

[00:24:55] Tessa Burg: Yeah

[00:24:55] Zach Rosen: … there’s, there’s no kind of stopping that. So, um, the sooner that you can kind of embrace, uh, the disruption and embrace adaptability and, and build that into your, you know, your approach, um, i- in your career and in how you approach, um, you know, y- your own work, I think th- that, that’s really where, where, um, where brands are being rewarded and where, um, ad tech is being rewarded.

[00:25:18] Tessa Burg: Yeah. So Zach, this has been so important. I mean, our clients’ brands spend millions and millions of dollars on paid media every year, so this is incredibly important, and what we’ve hit on is showing brands, like, one, this is better for your brand.

[00:25:34] Tessa Burg: You’re able to be closer to the publishers, be in niche spaces, be more inclusive with who you’re targeting and invite-

[00:25:40] Zach Rosen: Yeah. Be closer to your, your end consumer and, and, and in a moment where they’re, you know, most influenced or most kind of open to, um, open to, to messaging.

[00:25:52] Tessa Burg: Yeah. And then i- in turn, it’s better for the publishers, and we’ve also talked about this is great for helping people to navigate through that change of AI, so better for the marketer, more visibility.

[00:26:06] Tessa Burg: I’m being exposed to new audiences. I’m measuring an outcome. All good things. This has been absolutely fascinating, Zach.

[00:26:13] Tessa Burg: Thank you.

[00:26:13] Zach Rosen: Oh, thank you, Tessa.

[00:26:14] Tessa Burg: Thank you so much.

[00:26:15] Zach Rosen: It’s so great to join you today. I appreciate it.

[00:26:17] Tessa Burg: Yeah. And if people have more questions for you, where can they reach you?

[00:26:22] Zach Rosen: Yeah, they can reach me on, um, they can reach me on LinkedIn, um, they can reach me through Multilocal, um, and, uh, look forward to, to connecting with everybody.

[00:26:31] Zach Rosen: And thanks again for, for a great conversation.

[00:26:34] Tessa Burg: I know. And do you… I saw there was a podcast. And do you host that podcast?

[00:26:40] Zach Rosen: We do. Yeah. So we have, we have, um, we have a full kind of content hub called Creatio Conversations. Um- Okay … it’s a little bit podcast, it’s a little bit kind of thought leadership, written interviews, and data that we’re sharing.

[00:26:51] Zach Rosen: So if, if any of this-

[00:26:52] Tessa Burg: Cool

[00:26:52] Zach Rosen: … was interesting to, um, you know, to, to, to the listeners today, um, there’s a lot more where this came from. We’re posting daily with insights, with reflections on changes in the industry and, and how curation and sell-side decisioning and a little AI are, are kind of driving major shifts in the, in the media planning and buying world.

[00:27:13] Zach Rosen: Um, so creatioconversations.com. Um, it’s all, um, produced by Multilocal, and we’ve got a lot of great content there that, um, that, yeah, I, I encourage everyone to check out.

[00:27:25] Tessa Burg: Awesome. And we’ll have a link to that-

[00:27:27] Zach Rosen: Awesome

[00:27:27] Tessa Burg: … on our website as well. So if you want more episodes of Leader Generation, you can find them at modop.com/podcast, or just search Leader Generation on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts and it’ll pop up.

[00:27:42] Tessa Burg: I think we’re on all of the major channels. And until next time, Zach, I look forward to catching up again with you soon.

[00:27:51] Zach Rosen: Thanks, Tessa. Have a great one.

[00:27:52] Tessa Burg: You too.