Why Marketers Need To Become Growth Architects

[00:00:00] Tessa Burg: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Leader Generation, brought to you by Mod Op. I’m your host, Tessa Burg, and today I’m joined by Tariq Hassan. Tariq is a transformational global business leader whose career sits at the intersection of culture, sports, commerce, and technology, with more than 25 years of experience spanning Fortune 50 companies to fast growth startups and across a wide range of categories. 

[00:00:28] Tessa Burg: And today we’re gonna be having a conversation right in his sweet spot, which is modernizing organization for what’s coming next. He recently participated as an advisor in a study with IRG, the Institute for Real Growth, and Google, and it explored this topic, and we’re gonna get into some of those learnings and what that process looked like. 

[00:00:50] Tessa Burg: Tariq, thanks so much for joining us today.  

[00:00:52] Tariq Hassan: Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Tessa. Look forward to it.  

[00:00:55] Tessa Burg: So I was telling you before the call, was reading your LinkedIn profile, and your journey has just been incredible. And tons of experience to bring to this conversation, and that you were able to bring to that recent research project. 

[00:01:09] Tessa Burg: So let’s start with, tell us a little bit about yourself and your career journey to date.  

[00:01:15] Tariq Hassan: Well, we, we all can make our LinkedIn journeys look really, really interesting. I wish I could tell you mine was completely by… brilliantly by design. It, it wasn’t. I have a pretty eclectic, uh, experience path that I’ve been down. 

[00:01:26] Tariq Hassan: Um, you know, the kind of four chapters. The first chapter was really about customer centricity and creativity, and that was in the agency world, where I really learned how to distill strategy down into much more simple, actionable ways to, to connect with the consumer. Um, relationships in that world took me over to the corporate side, and so I moved into the tech space and, and spent some time with, with HP. 

[00:01:49] Tariq Hassan: And it was more about when I did it, right? And so I, you know, it’s… You’re on the heels of Facebook, the first iPhone. I’m working on these crazy little first generation things called apps, right? And so gave me an understanding to start to see how technology was gonna start to move across enterprise, enable it. 

[00:02:05] Tariq Hassan: And the third chapter then put me into the financial services world, which was really about big data and being able to start to see, you know, ’cause financial service companies were the ones that had real access to data, start to move across that technology infrastructure. And so without realizing it, you know, I managed to get myself into a place where I triangulate the things that I think are really important as we go into this next chapter of AI and technology, which is keeping the customer central, and but doing it in authentic and connected and increasingly personalized way is never gonna go away. 

[00:02:39] Tariq Hassan: It’s increasingly important. But now being able to leverage technology, not just AI, but the technology that’s in place to organize the data so that you’re not putting garbage in to get garbage out with AI. You’re actually getting something that feels like you know the customer and can engage in a powerful way. 

[00:02:55] Tariq Hassan: And that’s what I really got to do in my last two chapters at Petco and McDonald’s, was bring those things together, and start to do that not only through a marketing lens, but think about it through a customer experience lens to create that relationship.  

[00:03:07] Tessa Burg: Yeah. We– And it’s so interesting ’cause we talk about customer experience a lot and being customer-centric, but some of the things that you uncovered in your research really gives people frameworks that they can think through and work against to do that in a real way. 

[00:03:25] Tessa Burg: You spoke about, you know, the intimacy of data and that pivot from personalization to intimacy. How do you move a legacy organization from using data in a more transactional way to using it, as you put, a currency of trust that actually strengthens that human connection with the brand?  

[00:03:45] Tariq Hassan: Yeah, look, I think, again, it depends. 

[00:03:46] Tariq Hassan: You know, we talk about these things almost as, like, a one size fits all, and they’re not, right? It really depends on your point, what’s the nature of the legacy? What’s the category? W-what’s their access to data, right? Those who have real deep first-party data versus those who are either dependent on third-party or inference data, they have different experiences, right? 

[00:04:05] Tariq Hassan: And in many ways, I think we were starting part of this journey even prior to AI, which is why you started to see some of the technology transformation taking place through the cloud and getting the organizations benefiting that part of the, of the efficiency and effectiveness of the organization. I think AI brought on an accelerate that allowed us to think about, boy, I really have to be prepared to organize that data because now the expectation of that personalization has also been accelerated with the customer. 

[00:04:31] Tariq Hassan: And whether that’s your end consumer or customers, uh, inside your account management side of what you’re doing from a B2B perspective, those expectations are being set by people’s experience of where the data’s organized in a way that it does know you, and it shows up and feels personalized. Boy, the dissonance when you’re not organized can feel it, right? 

[00:04:49] Tariq Hassan: And so, so much of that has not to do with what do we actually do with the customer, it’s what do we do to organize the organization in such a way that that data is put in the right places and can be brought to leverage in a way that it feels like an I know you moment with that customer. And we know it happens, even before AI. 

[00:05:07] Tariq Hassan: When I was at McDonald’s, one of the biggest things we were mission-driven to do was actually put more customers onto the app, and that was because we saw as you created value for the customer, they were willing to provide you more on it. So if they understand you, they like you, and they’re seeing value, they’re actually giving you an invaluable insight for you to show up the right way for that customer. 

[00:05:27] Tariq Hassan: All of that’s irrelevant if you can’t capture that data the right way, organize it, and express it back that continues that relationship with the customer.  

[00:05:36] Tessa Burg: So it’s interesting that you started with the app, and you said you really have to focus on, like, how the organization is organized to get the right data. 

[00:05:46] Tessa Burg: What was the process like going through to identify, hey, here’s where we should start to capture the right data that makes us customer-centric?  

[00:05:57] Tariq Hassan: Yeah, it’s… You know, listen, it’s very seldom a data mission in and of itself. Both my experience at Petco and McDonald’s, those were busin- business-driven missions, right? 

[00:06:07] Tariq Hassan: In the case of Petco, we had to go through a transformation recognizing we weren’t gonna be successful long term as a traditional four-box retailer, right? So what was the differentiation we could provide? Well, inside the organization, sure, we had merchandise that was transactionable, but we also had services, grooming and training and veterinarian services. 

[00:06:26] Tariq Hassan: But those datas li- that data lived in separate places. So we were engaging customers in transactional moments in each of those, when we actually had the opportunity was to bring that data together and start to see you and understand you as a pet parent, not as a transactional moment in one of those businesses. 

[00:06:45] Tariq Hassan: So we had to first of all get that organized in such a way that we could get to a starting point that said, “The thing we wanna do here is understand that really important thing for a pet parent,” which was two really simple things: Help me have a happier, healthier life with my pet, and let me extend the life of that pet as long as I can. 

[00:07:04] Tariq Hassan: Now, when you organize data to answer that question, you also then start to build products to answer that question, so it changes your commerce structure. It changes the app engagement. It changes the content you feed to the customer. It changes the innovation model of what you create next, right? So that true north being in place. 

[00:07:20] Tariq Hassan: In the case of McDonald’s, we had become too transactional. We had lost our touch and our favor with young fans of the brand. And so the app was important for two reasons. O- one was to be able to have that direct connection to a data-first, digital-first world with the youth market. And secondarily, as a fran- franchise business, change the operating model, because the more we could have customers order for themselves and pay for themselves, you create an opportunity to re- reapply resources around the organization for different usage, right? 

[00:07:54] Tariq Hassan: And so seldom do these things work when you start with the data or when you start with the technology. And what I love about AI is I think the most powerful versions you’re seeing being used is starting with, what is the problem we have to solve? And when you link that to what is the problem we have to solve for the customer, your odds of increasing and creating a more powerful and robust connection with them goes through the roof, right? 

[00:08:16] Tessa Burg: Yeah. I really love how you step through that process, and it reminded me, my cousin’s husband was a part of the McDonald’s junior program that brought back all-day breakfast.  

[00:08:32] Tariq Hassan: Mm-hmm.  

[00:08:34] Tessa Burg: They did a very similar thing when they w- they were trying to reach that younger audience. They’re like, “What do they really want?” 

[00:08:39] Tessa Burg: They wanna order the bacon, egg, and cheese biscuit anytime they stinkin’ want it. And I think sometimes when you, you get too caught up in the business objective and you forget that we can look at our… And that did, it inform- Th- they had tried it before, and it had failed, and I remember him saying that they couldn’t let go of the r- of the reasons that it had failed in the past. 

[00:09:08] Tessa Burg: And similarly, AI takes away so many reasons that things failed in the past. So not only do you have to be really open to hearing and simplifying down, what do they really want? At the end of the day, what is the real problem? Yeah. But also, of course you’ve tried it before. A lot of companies have tried, they’ve always wanted to be customer-centric, but AI has a new unlock to look at what’s possible completely differently and be open to- Yeah 

[00:09:35] Tessa Burg: quote, unquote, “trying again.”  

[00:09:38] Tariq Hassan: 100%.  

[00:09:39] Tessa Burg: I love that. So when we think about stuff that has really started to change in marketing, you recently highlighted this shift toward a world where you know it might not be people who are doing the shopping online, and it may be AI assistants. And how do you start to resolve that? 

[00:09:58] Tessa Burg: Because you still want to be customer-centric, you still want to have that personal connection, but where you’re maintaining personal connection is t- trying to still be emotional and authentic while understanding that, you know, AI agents, AI assistants are actually a part of that transaction.  

[00:10:17] Tariq Hassan: Yeah, like I, I continue to believe, if you look at this historically, nothing’s really changed in terms of the importance of understanding your customer and having a conversation with a customer, right? 

[00:10:27] Tariq Hassan: If I go way back and, and, and think about this historically, if that was just heading down the road to a local trade person and having a conversation and then bartering and negotiating, that w- that was a chapter, and then it moved into retail channels and going into stores and having that dialogue with a salesperson. 

[00:10:43] Tariq Hassan: And then the internet came along, and by the way, you were disintermediary, disintermediated there as well. You weren’t speaking to that person in the store any longer, you were speaking to Google and you were, were doing research. AI is an acceleration of the anticipation of it and, and now there’s more tools added both for the researching and potentially moving into patterns of actual transactions. 

[00:11:04] Tariq Hassan: So at the base of it, the customer is no different. What’s happened is the access to more information and enablement of technology to, to how they ultimately make those decisions. I think what’s unique with AI Is the next chapter for what we spent the last 20 years in the digital space on was, it was predominantly a space where it was to bring you, engage you, bring you into research, create consideration, and ultimately a transaction. 

[00:11:30] Tariq Hassan: What’s different here is by the time I actually get to that transaction point, the agent may have done the identification, the engagement, the research, the understanding, and presented to me what those options are for final transaction. And so, you know, I may not get to your website till I’m actually ready to buy, right? 

[00:11:52] Tariq Hassan: Right. If even that, ’cause I may just actually go directly to the link of, of the AI platform that I’ve set the information up to do. But behind it, that shouldn’t dissuade us from doing the things that we’ve always done in thinking through the customer. You just have to organize it differently, make sure it can be discovered in a different way, and it now comes with a new stake and requirement of like, do I trust the information, right? 

[00:12:18] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm.  

[00:12:18] Tariq Hassan: And so organize it, proliferate it so it’s in the right place at the right time, and have me trust the outcome. And now ultimately me means both myself and any agent that’s doing that kind of search for me, that that trust requirement has to be defined. Because the beauty of the agent, at least to date, you know, they can’t be persu- persuaded by some of the emotional elements we’ve maybe used in the past. 

[00:12:43] Tariq Hassan: I don’t think those go away completely, mind you. Humans are still irrational, and that’s … then that rationality will still show up in even in their own AI queries, which is a good thing. Which means having to think about not only having it organized and discoverable, but that it’s in a voice that is human and, and, and there’s conviction around the brand and trust in the brand are still relevant. 

[00:13:04] Tessa Burg: Yeah. You hit on a lot in that answer, and I laughed a little bit because you said, “Humans are still irrational,” and that’s true for the humans in the organization as much as it is for the-  

[00:13:15] Tariq Hassan: Correct …  

[00:13:16] Tessa Burg: out of the organization. And what we’re seeing is a lot of marketers are, and I think you use this phrase and I absolutely love it, resonated with me, panic piloting. 

[00:13:25] Tessa Burg: You know, as humans who are trying to get our arms around what to do next, we… I was just at a conference, and I heard super smart, highly intelligent marketers ask questions like, “Well, I’m gonna go talk to these vendors and see which one, which one, which tech solution will accelerate our AI journey.” And it’s like accelerate your AI journey, one tech solution, but you need, as you pointed out, you need to organize, like what’s the customer asking? 

[00:13:59] Tessa Burg: Like, what’s the problem you’re trying to solve? How … But there’s this pressure, like if I … Well, I know I just wanted to write faster. I know I … It’s almost like we get caught up in the things we know we want to do, ’cause AI enables us to do it. So how do you move people from that panic and really start looking at re-engineering the whole marketing operating system so that creative and the optimization are moving at the same velocity as serving the customer? 

[00:14:30] Tariq Hassan: Yeah. Again, I think we’ve experienced these things where we see what happens when new technology shows up. When we start with the executional model, what, what do I want to do with it?  

[00:14:40] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm.  

[00:14:41] Tariq Hassan: Um, you, you generally will create, you know, it creates some interesting experiences, and sometimes it even creates some interesting wins. 

[00:14:47] Tariq Hassan: But I don’t think you actually unlock the longer term for growth, right? By saying, “What problem do I need to solve?” And then understanding what technology can actually help enable that. Yeah. I think we’re moving through a similar process as we did with digital, just at a lightning speed, um, versus what we went through in the early web commerce era, right? 

[00:15:07] Tariq Hassan: Think of how long it took us originally just to play with information before you actually could transact with the information. Now, I think it’s the speed in which it’s happening. Um, and initially, and I’m seeing signs of it starting to shift, but initially, the initial phase was, “Well, this is great. How do I gain more efficiencies and cut cost?” 

[00:15:26] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:26] Tariq Hassan: I think we’ve worked through some of that, and you’re now starting to hear a little bit of an equal balance, not in all cases, but in many cases, of just like before AI, you can’t cost cut yourself to prosperity. That doesn’t solve growth. You’re now starting to hear a very different conversation around what is the work that needs to be done, and yes, of course, what of that work can be done more efficiently? 

[00:15:48] Tariq Hassan: But we’re also pivoting very quickly to say, what are the drivers for growth that we set the priorities for the enterprise around, and how do we also start to use this technology to drive growth, not just reduce cost, right?  

[00:16:00] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm.  

[00:16:00] Tariq Hassan: Um, and again, I think those patterns have existed either through technology or even through organizational redesign in the past, right? 

[00:16:07] Tariq Hassan: Whether they were financial redesigns or whether they were structural redesigns, and now I think you’re seeing we fell in love with the what it can do. I think we’re now falling in love with what do I need it to do? What do my customers want it to do? And by the way, what do those things do to actually drive growth for the organization? 

[00:16:25] Tariq Hassan: And that’s why I think, you know, in the research that we did, one of the early themes that we saw was this transition from adoption, which is normal in technology, let’s, let’s play with it, let’s adopt it, to actually shifting into an embedded, um, infrastructure. Not just simply, you know, playing with the toys, but really thinking about it’s not what the technology itself can do- But what are the implications it has on organizational designs that it demands of the organization to actually leverage it, right? 

[00:16:56] Tariq Hassan: And those I think are, those are exciting. Um, they’re getting cloaked a little bit with the question of job loss, but I don’t think people are also equally thinking about the new job creation of the new demands that will come out of it. And that’s an- I think it’s a very natural experience for their, uh, the, you know, business culture to go through. 

[00:17:14] Tessa Burg: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And so as our business cultures are moving into, here’s a new way we have to organize it as a business in order to solve these customer challenges at the highest level, bubbling it up, collaborating, the customer’s now seeing us as one company, not a bunch of s- siloed different business units. 

[00:17:36] Tessa Burg: You touched on the need for trust. What are some of those trust signals that customers are going to need to see when they are interacting with you in different experiences?  

[00:17:50] Tariq Hassan: Yeah, I think there’s two dimensions. You hit on something really important, which is, how do you organizationally structure around this, and to ensure that you’re doing that, right? 

[00:17:57] Tariq Hassan: So before you even get to the customer, the second major theme that we saw inside of the research … And I should say, the research we did was with CEOs, CFOs, CMOs, and those. So n- so it wasn’t just a functional dive. Um, it was also diving into, to content that was on the web, whether it was podcasts or Substacks, et cetera. 

[00:18:16] Tariq Hassan: Um, and what we discover is, like up until the last little while, we really were having this conversation around brand versus performance, right? And the argument would be, to, to your point, the brand was really about gaining that customer centricity and connection, and performance was driving the growth and the acquisition. 

[00:18:32] Tariq Hassan: I think we went through that era of either/or. I’ve never been a big subscriber of either/or. I believe in brand performance and how those things work together. The beauty of the technology is that it now starts to take some of the gray area and subjectivity in terms of what really works. But that in itself isn’t enough. 

[00:18:48] Tariq Hassan: So even if I figure that out to deliver for the customer, um, there’s a fundamental change that has to change inside the organization. And ultimately, it’s a mindset of you can do short-term and long-term together. Hmm. But we’re not structured for it, right? And that’s not just a marketing problem, that’s an enterprise problem. 

[00:19:08] Tariq Hassan: That means ensuring that the incentivization of an organization takes those critical KPIs that we’ve chased as marketers, and they actually sit up at the enterprise level as well, so they’re viewed as a, an opportunity to be growth levers for the enterprise. That’s when you’ll get people to lean in, because marketers can’t do this simply through campaigns anymore. 

[00:19:29] Tariq Hassan: You need the partnership with technology and finance to invest in the right areas, because the way I show up for the customer is enabled by tech and by data in ways that are not just solely about marketing.  

[00:19:40] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm.  

[00:19:41] Tariq Hassan: And so getting that right- Sorry to go back to come forward, but getting those things right will then allow the output to that customer to feel much more like you’re thinking about who they are. 

[00:19:54] Tariq Hassan: That’s where the trust piece comes in. So even if I get it right, do I trust the source of the information? Do I trust the source of the experience, is going to be critical. And you’re already seeing this start to play out in terms of how customers talk about which platforms they trust over other platforms. 

[00:20:11] Tariq Hassan: Well, that will grow for companies as well. If you provide me incredible value, I’m going to want to give you more of that information. That’s a trust contract, right? Because you’re gonna provide convenience and experience and value that I really want. But breach that trust, I’m not gonna give you what you need, and therefore you can’t complete the equa- equation really well. 

[00:20:31] Tariq Hassan: So we also saw the trust element as a critical finding in the research, that there is a real deficit that is going to be filled not only by the tech platforms, but by the brands who leverage those platforms.  

[00:20:44] Tessa Burg: Yeah, you said something I think a lot of people would sit back and wonder, how do I know if I’m delivering incredible value? 

[00:20:52] Tessa Burg: Like, or like, how do I know where I sit? Like, if incredible value is the end goal, where am I right now today in, against that value equation? How do you help people start to navigate and define how to measure those leading and lagging indicators against customer value?  

[00:21:13] Tariq Hassan: You just said the key phrase. In the past, we’ve had to look at those as leading and lagging rearview mirror indicators. 

[00:21:19] Tariq Hassan: The pos- the powerful aspects of what we’re seeing with AI is its ability to be forward predictive-  

[00:21:25] Tessa Burg: Mm …  

[00:21:26] Tariq Hassan: on some of th- those things. And so that’s a fundamental shift in and of itself, that I can look through the windshield as opposed to look in the rearview mirror. And the, and the lag time on some of that data was, was quite long, right? 

[00:21:37] Tariq Hassan: If I think about my own career and, and when we would get those findings, some of them when I first started my career would we review at the end of the year, right?  

[00:21:43] Tessa Burg: Right.  

[00:21:44] Tariq Hassan: N- now you’re actually able to put in leveraging, even with the data gaps, trying to gain predictability. There’s a company I worked with, um, initially with pilots at McDonald’s and doing some advisory with a company called Zero2One. 

[00:21:57] Tariq Hassan: That company has a behavioral predictability that you can put your own time constraint around. In our case, we looked at the likelihood of a customer to be in the quick serve market in the next 24 hours. Were they staying home? Or if they were coming out, were they coming to McDonald’s or were they going to a competitor? 

[00:22:14] Tariq Hassan: Well, the most im- powerful one was if they weren’t coming. So if we could predict ahead of time that you’re not coming to… Everyone, you know, in McDonald’s, 90% of the country goes through McDonald’s once a year. They just don’t do it every day. Yeah. So if I can start to get an understanding of the days you’re not going to, and the first thing we did was we ran a test against suppression and w- and suppressed investment, which you can imagine made a few Of the BI guys a little nervous because what if the next offer was the one that changed that customer’s mind? 

[00:22:44] Tariq Hassan: Well, we were able to prove that suppression out to 99.6%, that Tessa actually isn’t going to be in the market tomorrow. Well, you can imagine the scale of investment for McDonald’s, just the suppression efficiencies that were gained from that. But then we also said, “Well, wait, if they’re coming to McDonald’s, why are we treating them like a traditional acquisition? 

[00:23:01] Tariq Hassan: My objectives with them should be about grow- growing the check and doing something different, which changes my offering to them.”  

[00:23:10] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm.  

[00:23:10] Tariq Hassan: I don’t need to spend the same as I would on trying to convince a customer to turn left instead of right. And so that was all predictive. That wasn’t waiting for lagging indicators. 

[00:23:20] Tariq Hassan: That was using their algorithm in terms of understanding that behavioral aspect of customers, combined with our par- I, we weren’t even using first party in the first test, but then if you combine that with first party and you can get predictive on forward, I think it starts to change it, right? And the last thing I’ll say on that you, that’s really critical here, the hardest part in the culture, I think, today is to recognize that’s a very different approach, that you have to trust data that’s predicting something forward, as opposed to the comfort you’ve always had with lagging data. 

[00:23:55] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm.  

[00:23:55] Tariq Hassan: Which, by the way, had its own issues in and of itself, right? And what can happen while it was lagging, there are-  

[00:24:00] Tessa Burg: Right …  

[00:24:00] Tariq Hassan: things that can change in the market.  

[00:24:01] Tessa Burg: Yeah.  

[00:24:02] Tariq Hassan: But that’s a mindset shift that also has to take place in the culture.  

[00:24:06] Tessa Burg: It, I mean, that’s a massive mindset shift, and even-  

[00:24:09] Tariq Hassan: Yeah  

[00:24:11] Tessa Burg: … there has always been, if you have real numbers or you have data, people who their instinct, their gut almost overrides it. 

[00:24:21] Tessa Burg: They’re like, “Well, I, I just don’t believe that as a number.” And that always, I’m always like, “What is happening?” But I think, too, it’s when you’re looking at predictive data, you also have to, when you’re bringing more people along, is look at the context in which you’re giving them the data. And when there’s responses or this uneasiness, is that could actually reveal other challenges or other points of opportunity in your adoption. 

[00:24:50] Tessa Burg: Like how do they-  

[00:24:50] Tariq Hassan: Mm-hmm  

[00:24:51] Tessa Burg: … become more a part of that design? How can they better understand where this context and this data is coming from? Uh, and I, I don’t know if you’ve run into that challenge when you feel this resistance to using behavioral data as a guiding star. Where are there opportunities to bring more people together to be a part of the conversation as other questions to ask, or how do we continue this growth conversations that we can act on the data we see in a unified way, and it ser- continue to serve as our North Star? 

[00:25:25] Tariq Hassan: Yeah, look, I think we have to be objective as marketers. We have, for a long time, used- Measurement and dashboards to help guide the work that we do. And I want to be very clear, many of those are still really important for the work that we do. The challenge and where some of the skepticism comes from that you’re referencing is, goes back to what I was saying, is are the critical data elements that you believe hold that single version of the truth sitting only in marketing, or are they actually up at the leadership level where they’re not viewed as marketing data, but actually enterprise data that you and the rest of the leadership team have an equal accountability to own? 

[00:26:01] Tariq Hassan: People have a much harder time subjectively dismissing information if they’re equally held accountable to the success of that information. And I think one of the challenges that we have faced as marketers is we haven’t found the one or two, not everybody, I’ve, I, I’ve got some, I’ve met some leaders that are doing this really well with their leadership teams. 

[00:26:19] Tariq Hassan: But we haven’t found the one or two critical KPIs that are not viewed as marketing KPIs, but as enterprise success KPIs that are owned by the leadership team. We as marketers own some of those at that table down into marketing.  

[00:26:32] Tessa Burg: Mm-hmm.  

[00:26:32] Tariq Hassan: What are you bringing up and contributing? And the great thing about the, the technology advancement is it allows some of those things to actually be defined and, and placed at that level. 

[00:26:42] Tariq Hassan: But I think we as marketers have to fundamentally shift from convince mode to actually enablement mode and helping leadership understand that those, those critical KPIs and those data points shouldn’t be viewed as bellwether for marketing. They should be bellwether for growth, um, and influencing the enterprise itself. 

[00:27:02] Tariq Hassan: That, that’s a fundamental shift that we as marketing leaders have to take.  

[00:27:05] Tessa Burg: That is phenomenal guidance, and just a massive opportunity for marketing leaders to start to elevate themselves to that conversation and bring that level of thinking to the organization. We are actually at time, which really bums me out because I could ask you five more questions, and we might have to do a part two if you’re open to it. 

[00:27:24] Tessa Burg: But before we get off, do you have any last words in closing about the lead- about the research that you did, uh, and what you feel marketers should really take away as they look at the second half of 2026 and beyond?  

[00:27:39] Tariq Hassan: Yeah, look, I think in, in my view on this is you, you embrace the power of what’s happening, but em- embrace it as a growth architect for the enterprise, not just simply a growth of the consumer market. 

[00:27:51] Tariq Hassan: Um, we have the ability to have a view across the entire enterprise that can provide insight and value in the way we’ve looked at the market for customers. I think we can provide that internally. Um, that will show a different form of accountability for marketers. Um, you already hit on the m- other theme, which is you’ve got to be understanding where you currently sit on that trust barometer, both with your internal organization and your own people, um, but also then your customers, and understand where you sit, what are the challenges around those, and, and how to go after them. 

[00:28:20] Tariq Hassan: And then the last thing I would say, which is I don’t subscribe to the fact that, of course, there’s going to be shifts in jobs. Of course, there’s going to probably be job loss and job recreation. But I think hold true, and this was the final point that we saw critically in the research, which is the human is still a premium, premium engagement and competitive ad- advantage for organizations. 

[00:28:42] Tariq Hassan: We cannot win by simply following a data made me do it process. It’ll be the human quotient that has the ability to really dive into the analytics and start to look at it through an empathetic view of humanity, start to look at it through that same irrational eye of humanity that we talked about, and then be able to tell the expression of storytelling, be a… 

[00:29:02] Tariq Hassan: Those things are still going to be relevant. So when you recognize that, do what we’ve done in the past, leverage the technology to accelerate it, not assume it’s gonna suppress your ability to keep doing it. But you got to bring the organization along with you to do it.  

[00:29:17] Tessa Burg: Tariq, this was a phenomenal conversation. 

[00:29:19] Tessa Burg: Thank you so much for taking time today to join the podcast. If people have questions for you after listening to this episode, where can they find you?  

[00:29:28] Tariq Hassan: Um, probably the easiest place to do is to find me on LinkedIn. Um, you know, I’ll be there all week.  

[00:29:33] Tessa Burg: Awesome.  

[00:29:34] Tariq Hassan: And happy to, happy to connect and, uh, and, and speak to those. 

[00:29:37] Tariq Hassan: But thanks for having me, Tessa. It’s a real pleasure.  

[00:29:39] Tessa Burg: Oh, good. And we will have Tariq’s LinkedIn bio link on our website, where you can also find other episodes of Leader Generation. That’s modop.com, M-O-D-O-P .com, backslash podcast, or just search Leader Generation wherever you listen to your podcasts. So thanks again for joining us, and we’ll be talking again soon.